cinema_babe: (Biohazard)
[personal profile] cinema_babe
So 3 guys are accused of allegedly helping Dzhokhar Tsarnaev by moving stuff that was likely used to make bombs including empty firecrackers and a laptop.

My first thought? Wow, let's see how much help I can get when I move this summer.

Yeah, I told you it would be inappropriate.

Seriously though, I'm sure there will be yabbos who will try to tie this to Islam. Bull hockey. The surviving suspect is an American citizen. It doesn't matter whether he was born here or not, he voluntarily agreed to become a US citizen and when taking the oath, he said, "....I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen..."

His brother was a long time US resident.

I don't know if we will ever know completely what happened, but in my book this is as much a case of domestic terrorism as Oklahoma City.

Assuming these young men did help him and assuming they are Muslim would I find that surprising? Nope. But then again, when Timothy McVeigh was on the run you know he had help. Eric Robert Rudolph may have been able to live off the grid but I've got $100 that says extremist Christians aided him in some manner. Extremists who commit acts of violence will always find like minded people who will provide comfort and aid.

It ain't just a Muslim thing.

And this othering is ridiculous. The media (and not just Fox News) has used the phrase "ethnic Checen". WTF is that? If you look at the major ethnic groups of Chechnya, they are all pretty much white people. maybe not as pale as northern EUropeans but white people nonetheless.

I think that the US is entering a new period in our history. Up through WWII, for the most part, the mainland United States were physically insulated from military attacks directly from Europe. After WWII there were small perioding incidents that could be classified as terrorism but the first major attack (by native born Americans) didn't occur until the early 90s. I said that then that a psychological barrier had been breached.

I think we are now living in a country like the UK during it's conflict with the IRA. There will be periodic terrorist activity at major events in major cities. Not often, but often enough that children born in the past decade won't remember a time when it was that way.

Date: 2013-05-02 06:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Terrorism is not something generally true of Muslims and it is true of some people, Muslim or otherwise. But it's also true that there is a small but significant contingent of fanatics in Muslim communities, both here and elsewhere, who teach an ideology that makes terrorism seem reasonable, even if the teachers are not themselves terrorists. because of that, though the raw number of non-Muslim terrorists here is greater than that of Muslim terrorists, the percentage of Muslims who are indeed terrorists, though very very small, is large enough (and larger than the general population) that saying Islam has nothing to do with this doesn't fly and isn't ultimately helpful in getting across that Muslims in general are not the enemy.

Date: 2013-05-02 07:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
??? This isn't about Muslims being terrorists, this is about how there will be people who will use the news and spin it to tell the story that supports their world view.

I never said and don't think that Muslims are any more prone to violence than anyone else. *However* I think we both know that if these other young men who are arrested are Muslim, there will be people who will paint the picture of a sinister Muslim conspiracy.

My point is that regardless of the terrorist, his or her own, and by that I mean people of similar ideologies, will help them. Belief system is not a factor in this.

Date: 2013-05-02 06:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And does ethnicity = skin color in your book? Would saying someone is ethnically Polish not make sense to you>

Date: 2013-05-02 07:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Ethnically Polish has never made a lot of sense to me either. While I know that ethnicity =/= race, in the way the media is using it is code for, "he's not one one us" when really, he is.

Date: 2013-05-02 11:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I'm sure 'not one of us' is the point to some, but I think if he identifies with a group that fought an unsuccessful and very aggrived war of independence with an ongoing legacy of terrorism, that's worth noting.

Date: 2013-05-02 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
But you are missing the point, "Joe and Jane Average American" are not particularly enlightened on this sort of thing. This is not about you or I but the fact that this is going on in the first place and that the mainstream media (which is what almost every American consumes)is tap dancing overtime to make people think these bombers are "them" and not "one of us".

And to me that is a major problem that I think will come back to bite us in the ass.

Date: 2013-05-02 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
And I think it's half and half. Yes, what you say is happening. But Joe and Jane are not always as ignorant as you imply.

Date: 2013-05-02 11:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Not always but when it comes to certain issues, and acts of terrorism is one of them, common sense easily takes a back seat.

In the media I've heard phrases like, "she was a normal All-American girl until she converted to Islam". If you look at my other FB feed, I'm telling you, people are *crazy* over this.

No, I can't give them a lot of credit.

(Totally unrelated to this, coincidence or not? For the second time a mail based ricin attack closely follows an act of terrorism. What do you think that is all about?)

Date: 2013-05-02 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
The ricin thing is weird. I don't know whether the second attack was in any way inspired by the timing of the first. But wasn't it sent before the bombs went off? Yes, I do think it's coincidence, but Hmm.

As for terrorism, a great many people do indeed go crazy. And I share your concern. But just because some people do go crazy doesn't mean everyone (or even almost everyone) does. I don't want to be denied actual relevant context in the news because some people will take it wrongly--I do wnat the media to indicate the ways in which thata context is relevant and the ways in which it is not.

Date: 2013-05-03 01:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
But most of the media that most of the country is plugging into is not getting that. I really think it's more than some. In some ways this thing in Boston is psychologically more affecting than even September 11 or maybe it's just a different time and different political climate, maybe because there is a live person to focus on, I don't know.

It's like a big feedback loop of crazy running between the media and the public.

And I realized I had brain fade. After Sept 11 it was *anthrax* not ricin that was in the mail. It definitely started showing up in the mail a week or two after Sept 11 because I remember all of the precautions we had to take with mail at Pru and guess who had to do the training?

Date: 2013-05-03 11:21 pm (UTC)
ashbet: (Eyes Only)
From: [personal profile] ashbet
*nods* I'm with you on this. They're bending over backwards to say that these young men were *not white* and *not one of us* -- despite the fact that the "publicly acceptable" coded term for "white" is "Caucasian" . . . and they were both from the Caucasus, as Caucasian as you can get.

Now, that's based on an outmoded idea of "five races of humanity" blah blah blah . . . but if I fill out a form, I'm asked if I'm Caucasian, and they sure as hell aren't asking if I'm from Eastern Europe, they want to know if I'm white.

The level of othering and mental gymnastics that are going on in the media and in private discussions is really disturbing.

I find this case desperately sad on a number of levels (most importantly, the victims and their families and the witnesses to the horrific events), but one thing that is really getting to me is watching people who are otherwise fairly reasonable use arguments with a high level of cognitive dissonance to "prove" that these young men were Chechen Muslim sleeper agents or some incredible story like that . . . when what it looks like, right now, is that one brother was a potentially-mentally-unstable extremist who felt alienated from society, and the younger brother got pulled along in his wake. (He's still culpable, of course, but it does seem like Dzhokhar was not the driving force behind this bombing.)

The college kids who disposed of evidence? Sure, they could be religious extremists who were in on the plot from the beginning. But they could just as easily be dumbasses who were trying to keep their friend out of trouble, possibly thinking that he was innocent of the charges but they thought that his brother was guilty -- nobody's going to know until all of the facts come to light.

But passing this off as a matter of religion, and othering the suspects/perpetrators, really fails to acknowledge the fact that, yes, these WERE men who spent a large amount of their lives in the United States, that one was a citizen, that they went to school and worked here, and maybe some of their sense of nihilism and destructive hopelessness is a product of *our* society and the perceived lack of opportunities available for young people in this economy, not just "far-away religious extremism," something we can conveniently blame on the Other and then walk away from.

-- A <3

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