When Did We Become a Nation of Ghouls?

[cinema_babe]

I see no reason to release pictures of Osama bin Ladin's body. I'm not aware of any other circumstance in my lifetime where the United States government executes someone and posts pictures for people to see.

1. Releasing the pics will not stop the conspiracy theorists and Obama haters from saying this is a conspiracy. They'll comb through every pixel and challenge half of them and claim the picture was faked.

2. When did we become such a nation of ghouls? Jesus! I don't remember hearing 911 calls as part of a newscast when I was younger. Now they are a regular part of news shows and pretty much anything deals with disasters. I get a sick feeling in my stomach hearing someone's panicked phone call in what might be the worst moment of their life. I tried desperately to avoid listening to any of the calls from September 11, 2001. I felt it soiled and disrespected those who died and were injured that day as well as their families.

And now people are celebrating in the streets and demanding to see this man's dead body? Yuk.

3. I see this as something vaguely racist. No one asked to see Timothy Mc Veigh's body and committed the first act of terrorism on US soil since the Civil War. Not to minimize what Bin Ladin did, but McVeigh set off a bomb outside of a *daycare center*; I still remember the picture of the fireman cradling the dying child. No one was calling to see the bodies of the Columbine shooters. They showed the bullet ridden school but they didn't even show any blood or evidence of the violent death people suffered at the hands of these two. But the brown man, foreigner, gets killed and half of American wants to see the body so they can gloat and cheer.

Fuck that.

We don't need to be like Italy in '45 when they literally strung Mousallini(sp) and his lover up by their heels while crowds came to cheer. We don't need to be like American in the 19th century when it was great sport to hang a man and make it social event. I am an optimist and a patriot and I choose to believe Americans can be better than that.

We've seen pictures of the aftermath; those rooms that looks like slaughter houses, the bloody bodies of his henchmen. They've told us that Bin Ladin was shot once above the left eye and twice in the chest. Between the description and pictures from the compound

I can piece together what went down just fine.

Comments

[barking-iguana.livejournal.com]

Amen.

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

We didnt need to see McVieghs body, cause everybody SAW it. We HAD him. In jail. For however long it was until they executed him.

And I totally disagree. They shouldve put Osama in a fucking cage at Ground Zero and charged people money to spit on him. We'd fix ny's budget overnight. im dead serious. Fuck that guy.

[cinema-babe.livejournal.com]

While I agree with the sentiment "Fuck him and anyone who follows him", I just can't go with showing the pictures, I don't think it will accomplish anything.

And while I'm sure that more than a few people would have liked to see him here for a good beating, I also think it would have been a security nightmare to bring him to the US, let alone to New York City. I'm actually glad that they interviewed him and killed him. Hell, we would have only executed him here anyway.

Ultimately, there are a number of people I know who disagree with my position as intensely as I disagree with theirs and I think that's a good thing. As far as I'm concerned no one has the *right* answer in all of this, just different opinions.

Ultimately, though I hold two beliefs with certainty (1) Good people can hold diametrically opposed beliefs becasue our positions are a result of our different life experiences and (2) In the end we all agree that the Navy SEALs did an awesome job and the world is a better place without Osama Bin Laudin.

[grendelgongon.livejournal.com]

I hear what you're saying and quite agree.

I don't think seeing his body would really add anything to the story, certainly not more than well maintained forensic evidence. A vial of blood/tissue is more than enough for a completely conclusive positive identification relative to his sister's known DNA.

I do think that it's different than McVeigh though in that the provenance of *knowing* that it was the correctly identified person who was killed is more difficult here, so people want more evidence.

But as to the fundamental question: When did we become a nation of ghouls? I think you've answered it yourself. Executions for most of history have been a social event -- a moment when the citizenry observes the power of their government. We've always been a nation of ghouls and so are most other nations I'm aware of. We just have better technology so people can enjoy their ghoulish tendancies on a more global basis.

I would argue that this means we need more protection from the ghouls at large so it's not our most miserable moments that are someday on the evening news.

[cinema-babe.livejournal.com]

I think the comparison to McVeigh is apt in one important way.

The calls for the release of the picture haven't been about "we want to see the body to know that he is dead", what I have heard is, "We want to see the body so that we can cheer and celebrate that we killed him".

If this were strictly about a matter of providing proof then I would understand that a bit better (however, as I noted, people who claim they need proof of bin Ladin's death don't, they just want to nitpick and prove this is some sort of conspiracy).

I think we have had ghoulish moments in our social history; heck it was institutionalized when the government let hangings and dunkings become a public spectacle. However we also used to have racism and sexism mandated in our laws. At some point as a nation we reached a critical mass and rejected that. This is not to say that racists and sexists and that type of behavior by others is not still out there, it certainly is, but now there are normative behavioral pressure and legal redress to ensure civil rights.

Perfect, no, but it's there.

As a society it can be argued that we stepped away from "hangin' and Sunday supper" crowd but apparently not far enough for my tastes. I get the feeling (i would have loved to punch him) but I don't like.

[grendelgongon.livejournal.com]

Gotcha. That is rather a different thing, (Wanting to see the body so we can cheer and celebrate rather than to be convinced of his death.) and much less something that makes any sense to me.

I guess we agree that we have had ghoulish aspects to our social history for some time--I would just argue that they have been about evenly ghoulish over time, just with changes of focus.

[ladistrange.livejournal.com]

THIS!!!

I have a third viewpoint

[maxdwolf.livejournal.com]

I don't care that much either way. People are dying all over the world. We are facing major financial, resource, social and environmental challenges. If this photo is released it won't make much difference. If this photo is not released it won't make much difference. I choose to focus my taste for trivia on Jeopardy! and Biggest Loser and who's going to be the next Honinbo.